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An Interview with Martin Atkins
Posted: Monday, August 04, 2008
By: Steven Goins
DJ

Martin Atkins got his start with Johnny Rotten's post-Sex Pistols band, Public Image Limited, but that was only the beginning. Since leaving PIL, he has played with such legendary bands as Ministry and Killing Joke, not to mention collaborative projects like Murder, Inc., The Damage Manual—both of which have featured various members of Killing Joke, PIL, Ministry, and The Revolting Cocks—and Rx, his project with Skinny Puppy vocalist Nivek Ogre. Then of course there's Pigface, the industrial rock jam band spawned from Ministry's 1990 tour. Embracing an ever-growing list of members that has included such luminaries as En Esch, Chris Connelly, Trent Reznor, Curse Mackey of Evil Mothers, Leslie Rankine of Ruby, and Jared Louche of Chemlab, Pigface has been a prolific recording and touring machine, releasing over 20 CDs, including live albums and remix collections.

Pigface's porcine visage is only the head of a massive musical animal that also includes Atkins' label, Invisible Records, and its extended Underground, Inc. family of bands and independent labels. Lately, Atkins has been focusing more on more on sharing his own hard-won lessons from nearly 30 years in the music business. After developing a book and lecture series, Tour:Smart, and speaking on college campuses throughout North America and Europe, Atkins is currently promoting a companion DVD to provide a visual component to the various promotions strategies explained in the book. He also recently spent two weeks in China recording bands from Beijing's underground music scene; this trip is the subject of a second DVD entitled Sixteen Days in China and also provided fodder for yet another music project, China Dub Soundsystem. Atkins recently took a moment to speak to ReGen about the Tour:Smart package, his current projects and aspirations, and the state of the music scene in the 21st century.

You've been influencing the industrial scene for about 20 years. What do you think of it today?

Atkins: You know, I honestly have no idea. What is the industrial scene? I'm a punk. Not an Exploited mohawk punk—I'm a punk rocker from 1977 in London, where there was a revolution, and people started record labels and did things differently. After punk, I got into dub. After dub, I don't know what Killing Joke was, but my time with Killing Joke and Ministry we were experimenting with sampling, looping, and triggers. Before we did it with cassette tapes. I used to scratch cassette tapes over the top of songs and sometimes do it live. I guess Ministry and Pigface are industrial bands, but there are times when Pigface sounds like a gospel choir or a jam band. I sign things to the label that are spoken word, jungle, drum 'n bass, glitch, rock, world music, and fucking anything thats interesting. I hope that's what's happening with industrial. I thought the idea of industrial and the idea of punk is that people would open their minds. And when that happens, people who listen to industrial music might become interested in painting, Indian music, or growing strawberries. I think it's good for people to go where their interests lead them and not stay in one mode all their lives. I was a drummer in a rock band. I don't know if PIL was rock band, dub band, or experimental post-punk band. But I DJ, wrote a book, lecture, have a record label, mix, produce, arrange, screenprint scenery, had an art gallery show in cities around the world, and taught myself how to edit video. I'm having an interesting journey. And I think that was the idea of punk, and I hope that's the idea of industrial. So I think its possible, the idea of industrial music without having an oil drum and a bunch of samples in a song.

What are some of the examples you give on the DVD for bands to 'tour smarter?'

Atkins: There are a lot of ideas about routing, merchandise, packaging, and how to screen-print. The DVD is intended as a companion piece to the book. Screen-printing is explained in the book, but a few people have e-mailed and said they like my explanation, but once they saw it on the DVD they 'got it.' It's just another way of trying to communicate ideas to people. I think there are some people who are happy to sit and read a book and get it, and a lot of people who just can't get into books, even a book like Tour:SmartG that has three pictures on every page.

They'll get it more if there's more of a visual aid to what you're saying?

Atkins: Right. I mean, there are some things on the DVD that aren't in the book, just because things keep changing and developing. And I think there's already at least another DVD's worth of information to put together.

How much do you think touring has changed since you began your career?

Atkins: Fucking hell, you know what? That's kind of an interesting question. I don't know that it has changed all that much. Yeah, you can instant message people and do proximity marketing, but bands are still getting lost, fucking up, and forgetting to send out posters. I don't know if it's changed that much. If one thing has changed, I think you used to be able to release an album, and maybe the album would do OK, and maybe you would tour, and maybe you wouldn't. It was kind of something else you could decide to do. And now it isn't. If you're not touring, you're fucked! I mean, it's just really simple. If that isn't true, what are Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama doing? They've got better things to do and enough money to do those things and have a lot of fun doing them than driving around saying the same things to different people and shaking hands with people they probably normally don't want to hang out with. If there was another way of doing it, they'd be doing it.

So you think people seeing the bands live affects sales?

Atkins: Yeah. If you just hope because your music is available on the Internet people will buy it, you're wrong. People will buy your music because they saw you and they want to support you, or they'll listen to your music because you're coming to town and want to hear what you sound like so they can be bothered to have a shower, put on some decent-looking clothes, and pay for parking. Without touring, people might check out your music, but they're not paying for it. It's fine if you want be a person that makes music two days a month and have some fun doing it, but if you want to be serious and play in front of 500 people through a decent sound system, you go out there and do it.

Do you think the Internet has vastly changed whether you have to tour or not?

Atkins: I don't know if it's the Internet that's done that, but the climate, the attitude toward paying for music, the ways we distribute music, and the amount of music—all of those things—have changed the landscape.

What do you think are the best and worse things about touring?

Atkins: There are a few best things. For me, I like going into that tunnel. After four days on the road, I start to have problems with my knees and my arms. It becomes a mission and a struggle to play harder, faster, and still say hello to everybody and stuff and stay on top of everything else. And then the touring—the tunnel—focuses me. And it just becomes about the music, the playing, and the people. When I'm home, there are many different things going on. Maybe it's Tuesday and it's street cleaning on a Tuesday, and I have to make sure my vehicle is on the other side of the road. There's all kinds of stuff. That's also the good part of not touring. The good part of about touring is the tunnel and the focus. And the bad part about touring is being away from all the other things, like my family. I like meeting people on the road, meeting new people, and talking to new people. I like doing that. I like playing my drums once in a while. But it's tough to be on the road.

I like going out and lecturing. I've been doing that for about two years now, and I've been all over the world, and that's just me and my laptop. Sometimes I'll DJ at night time. Sometimes I'll do two or three lectures in a day. I'll do one or two schools and then drive 100 or 150 miles and onto another lecture. I like doing that a lot.

Where are some of the places you've lectured?

Atkins: Drexol, N.Y.U., U.S.C., Memphis, Colorado State, Beijing, Brighton, Cologne, Oslo, Bergen in Norway...all over the world.

What's been your favorite tour so far?

Atkins: I think I have favorite moments from most of them, whether it's PIL, Ministry, Killing Joke, Pigface, Murder, Inc., Damage Manual, or Brian Brain. I have favorite snapshots in my head of all of those tours. Killing Joke playing to eight or nine thousand people in open air stadiums in Europe. Pigface with Trent, Genesis P. Orridge, Danny from Tool, Ogre, or nobody anybody would know, just a bunch of cool people on stage having a blast. The inflatable boat that we had. Different things. Cello on stage, harp on stage. Playing with Geordie and Wobble with the Damage Manual, which is my favorite thing and my least favorite thing. Playing to 12 and half thousand people with Murder, Inc. Playing to 11,000 people in Los Angeles with Public Image Limited, having riot police on horseback and helicopters trying to control the riot outside. Japan. Australia. There's been some great moments. And there's been some horrible, horrible shit.

The other DVD is a documentary of your trip to China. Could you tell us about the trip?

Atkins: Yeah, I spent 16 days over there. I think originally I was supposed to be there for seven days, but I kept extending my stay because I loved it. I was working with a bunch of bands in the studio. And you know, I don't really know why I went, but I'm pleased that I did. I think I wanted to operate without a safety net. I don't know if that makes any sense. I guess I wanted to test myself. I don't really know. But I recorded some bands, saw loads of bands at a club called D22, and took some of those bands into a studio and produced albums for them, some of which I had to do mixing. I had an assistant, an interpreter, a bodyguard, and it was a really huge learning experience. Externally and internally it reminded me of how much I love music. It made me think that I should have just gone on my own. Maybe I will next time.

How is the underground scene in China? One would think it would be somewhat reserved.

Atkins: No, just the opposite. I don't know if anyone was singing about overthrowing the government. The bands that I saw that were making music were absolutely absorbed in their task, and they weren't strategizing their careers. They were just making music. There's a huge difference between bands over there and many bands over here in the States. Just to see bands like 'Oh hey, we just bought this keyboard, blah blah blah, see what happens.' Very intense, focused, and gleeful about making music. And there aren't great facilities over there, but people really tried to do everything they could to make things as good as they can be. There are all kinds of things in the documentary. There are much broader issues addressed than just me going to china. A lot of things happened while I was there—CBGB's closed, those shootings on the Tibetan border—I mean, there's a lot of things going on. And there were miscommunications. There were all kinds of things that happened, and things that continued to happen after I got back. It was just really fucking wild. I think that I've been very lucky in the timeframes, the time periods, that I've done things in. I mean, I worked with Ministry for probably the most exciting 12 weeks of Ministry. And I think I was in China for a very exciting 16 days.

Where do you think the music is going?

Atkins: I don't know, but it's going there very, very quickly. When I was young, there was punk rock for a few years, and then trends started to come after that. You could see a trend coming like waiting for a bus. You'd see something in the distance and you could get ready. Put your iPod away. Put your book away. Get ready to get on the bus, get your money out, and get ready to pay the fare. You'd be on the bus for awhile, and you could tell when the bus was running out of gas and go, 'I'm going to get off this bus and get on the next one.' And now all the buses are going very fast and very slow at the same time. Everything is looking very blurry and changing very quickly. I think as soon as you have an idea, somebody else has already thought of what you did yesterday, but they thought of it two weeks ago, and now they're actually doing it. I think it's a fantastic time. It feels like it's 1976 or '77 again. You can truly do anything you want to do. But it's very, very hard work to do that. The Internet hasn't made the crusade of making different music easy.

What are some of the current bands you think will influence music in the future?

Atkins: Wow, I have no idea. I hear a lot of bands now who it seems have taken little bits and pieces from a lot of '80s bands. You'll hear like a Gang of Four guitar riff or a PIL disco drum beat. The next generation of bands is using that and layering it with some '70s rock band hooks. I don't know where things are going, but they're exciting. Things are interesting. I think the educational field is at a time of great change. I think everything is in a time of great change. That's what it feels like to me. Maybe I feel lucky that in most of my life, things have always been changing. The major labels were ignored for a while when we all started our own labels. The change from vinyl to cassette to CD, then the Internet came along. I toured before cell phones, when your best friend was a big roll of quarters so that you could call three or four weeks ahead to book a show from a gas station. Things are always changing, and it's good to be comfortable with change. There are people out there right now who are screaming because thing are changing and they don't want things to change, but it's the nature of things to always change.

Along with the upcoming Pigface album, what other projects are you working on?

Atkins: I'm still mixing music from China. I'm working on a couple of ideas. I was e-mailing Curse Mackey yesterday. I want to do something with Curse; I'm not sure what it is. We've still got some work to do on the Pigface album. There are fantastic contributions already from Chris Connelly. I think it's one of the best tracks he's done—not for just Pigface, just one of the best tracks that he's done. It's called 'Electric Knives Club.' There's some great stuff. Alex from Zeromancer is working on a track in Norway. There's all kinds of people working on the new album. I'm working on a new book. I'm working on more video stuff. I'm editing. I'm working on a Killing Joke book, which is a very different format than a regular book. It's kind of just a very interesting time for me, organising, timing, and fucking around still. And what I want to do is open up this building as a school, have eight or 10 people learning. Not learning the music business, learning how to put a sound library together, or how to edit documentary footage of China, but learning all of this stuff and surfing on the waves of change. That's what I want to do. That's my...I was going to say 'fantasy,' but it isn't a fantasy, because we do free seminars here all the time. I think in the next eight weeks we're going to open up the ground floor as a teaching facility.